Nevermore - quale's Unleash The Power

"(5.) yukino_silvermaine for her "Orb Effects""

*snort*

Holy shit...

Wow extremely effective 10/10 vids .jif images normals this if a great guide clear well written and you at least recommend the treads +10 bonus.
I randomned nevermore on the same day i read this and i owned my kill death was 13/0 i did really well thankyou for your great guide!

Butterfly will give 60% IAS you forgot the IAS from the agility

Well god guide ill vote 10/10

10/10 sick video and very nice guide

yay!!!!! finally a guide to nevermore, the one b4 was seriously messed up and had 3 orbs, so stupid!!!!

OMG! nice strat, jpg image plus complete tips and trick,i like play with him but i have problem to calculate the range of shadowraze,now the problem is gone!! LOL
make guide for enigma plssssss

vote : 10/10
very usefull guide,thx a lot

idk about this guide...

excellent. 10/10. i think maybe the most comprehensive hero guide on DS. although i havent seen them all. good job.

Good!

This is freaking awesome. First time we are seeing anmiations? And they work bloody well. GJ man, definately a 10/10 from me!

omg.......very nice work

wow... very nice strat....
early game task is everyones task.. not only carry heroes...

but other than that.... insane strat!!..... i have to say... this is (one of) the most detailed guide ive ever seen... very great job done here..... i'll protest if someone rate this below 9....

GJ 10/10 for me...

may i suggest for you to put the lothats + requiem of souls combo inside your opponent for tremendous damage.... can even 1 hit fragile heroes... if you know what im saying...

definitely a much better guide than the one i read before.. nice work

great work there. however, skadi is passive for ranged heroes so shouldn't you be able to have both the deso and skadi?! well i don't play ranged heroes much so i'm basing it off my knowledge of orbs in dota. =]

finally a nevermore guide... i suck at using requiem the delay is so frigging long wont they run away wen they first see you out of lothars?

Yukino is a guy Anyway OMFGWTFBBQ NICE GUIDE! Don't tell anyone but this did better than 1st place from DotActics ;)

my favorite basic build with nevermore is

manta
+
lothar

have you ever tried it with manta? amazing attack power and easy to escape from attacks with illusions, and lothar is perceft for ultimate.

your strategy is one of the best strategies I've ever seen in dotastrategy.com

y ain't quale answering any comments...

shit,very nice......i use this hero and i get triple kill twice ......

lol finally one to replace that old trashy guide. i like ur guide. nice pics and gifs. shows that u worked really hard on this. i think that lothars should be before deso. but u do mention that as an option so thats cool.

10/10

@ orochi

oops, sorry about yukino's, i'll change that on my next update. probably when 6.53 is realeased, or when possible. sorry!

@ Shimrra_3

please comment my strat, i really would like to hear your comment.

@ Tha-Reeak

thanks for mentioning, i'll correct that on my next update.

@ pHysiX

frost attack gives debuff like corruption, they won't stack. corruption override frost attack. sadly.


thanks to everyone with their nice comments

@ Varisc

with lothars, you can use wind walk. the enemies can't see you nor sense you, coz your presence of the dark lord is disabled at wind walk. bad news if they use sentry wards or gem, you may need another method to approach your enemies unnotice. ask your teammates to distract them.

@quale
Shimrra did comment, he's amazed beyond words :D

@quale
Shimrra did comment, he's amazed beyond words :D

@ abreaction

thanks for sharing. really, i'm interested on manta + lothar's build. i'll try that!

@ gonz22

i did mention that technique. hmm, maybe i need to emphasize that a little more. i love doing that but the timing is difficult. usually, the enemy moves before my ulti hits them. thanks!

Niceman,
Ima try this out

This is the shockingly good guide to Nevermore I always wanted to make... that is my skill build and tactics right there. I have a different order of items but similar at the end.
But... I would have never figured out those videos. Just downloaded that program and now I can do anything. Credits to you in my next guide.

Only flaws are these: your list of links at the end doesn't have the actual links, and you could go for extra marks and give us the AOE of each raze.

Superb 10/10 guide!

@ Tokemus


hey, what a good timing! you're online and able to read my strat. or did you? hmm...

i voted "YES" for you to come back.

@quale
This was actually the first guide I read forwards and backwards =] Quite astonishing

Heh, thanks :) I'm only back for today so don't expect me to stay long

wow. godlike & goodluck

nice guide! I followed it and i got a monster kill in a pro game :)
10/10

@ Shimrra_3

AOE of each raze? thats tough!

ok, i'll do that on my next update, along with the links.

thanks!


btw, what's your next strat? leoric or medusa? good luck!

nice guide! I followed it and i got a monster kill in a pro game :)
10/10

well done

excellent screenshots

really comprehensive

10/10

Very well written guide, informative and precise. We have the same item build for him.For me this is the only way to play nevermore

Nevermore is one of my Fav. hero(beside Lina),if he can stand in early game than there is no stopping him. Rock on!

Amazing guide quale ! 11/10 , Nevermore it's one of my favorites heroes in DotA. When will be 6.53 released ? thanks !

@ shazzam66

if you recall, i commented on your gondar guide about nevermore's ulti. i'm so into this guide that's why i commented that. thanks!

@ supaplecs

soon, noone knows the exact date (i think). but i'm excited too on 6.53 map.

thanks to everyone that give high rate on this guide.

WOW AMAZING 11/10

This guide is flawless for my standard. I'm sure you would mind to hear my words: It is possible to cause an enemy to take damage from every single line, about 3600 damage(25% magic reduction is counted). Magnus's ulti removes collision from all the enemies but it's still hard for Nevermore to stay exactly on Magnus's position in such a messy situation. I think it is wonderful to add Storm Spirit as a auxiliary catalyst here since his ulti removes pathing between units....

"auxiliary" means you still need a mass disabler. Raijin grabs Nvm and Magnus into the enemies. Magnus and you cast ulti at the same time . Raijin can also cover your poor HP from nuking skills thanks to his Barrier.

great guide! I usually go for lothars first then helm of the dominator, butterfly and then hyperstone and assault cuirass though. Vanguard is useful only through early game. This is the first real guide for never(shadowraze rules) GJ!!!

just like what i do to nevermore...
but sometimes i get skadi for slow to ensure no escape....

@ EniXBlaze

that attack plan is really something and requires good team coordination. thanks for the idea. raijin's barrier is a good help for survival, especially if nevermore needs to approach the enemies to position his ultimate. it has long duration too.

This is by far the best guide ive ever read. Gj

Nice guide but dont like the item build.I play him with helm on start and than finish up with satanik and skadi and lothars/dager(lothars prefered).Satanik solves the problem with the low hp and with ur high dmg u heal great in battles plus in situations 1 v 1 u always own.

@ Vadje

someone suggest me that get vanguard on mid game to help nevermore survive. it really helps me when i'm still studying this hero. i like lifesteal-items now.

@ ancis000

i tried rush-skadi once and it's really tough earning gold. the components are expensive, but worth it after completing it. some expert players i know really uses skadi for nevermore.

a very great guide. pls make one for mirana or pudge hehe. i think your a pro in making guides. overall 10/10. nice job.

This is my second favorites strategy..........
Cool!!!lol

FINALLY
A Nevermore Guide,Great!!

amazing dude. i love the GIFs.

10/10!

wow this guide is great
i vote 10/10
nice guide

Very good guide, particularly about RoS and the Razes, but IMO get Lothar's after your Bracers and BoT>Treads. Why Lothar's? You need an escape/gank mechanism. Lots of kills and escapes can be gotten earlier with Lothar's. BoT cause later in the game, teleportation is crucial. One item that I've considered and might try(you should too) is Hand of Midas. All in all 9/10.

WOOOOOW....if some1 doesnt get a pro with this guide he'll never learn...holy **** this guide is so awesome i would give 11 if i could!!
Finally someone explained requiem of souls understandable and with (moving) pictures
Great

finally, shadowraze user for nevermore. good job.

10/10 Guide.
Actually, I disagree a bit with the item build.No offense but its still an awesome guide. I would change the FF:

-Power Treads to BoT. But in 1v1 I would get Power Treads and turn in into str form to be even bulkier.

-Lothar's Edge to Kelen's Dagger so a few combos wont need you to suddenly appear in the enemy's heroes,meaning if its a -lm/-xl game, you wont get owned by mass disables such as Overgrowth and others.

-Get Bottle early on for mass spamming/harassing.

Overall,10/10

if i'm, using nevermore, i will buy boots of travel, because you can farm, defend push. boots of travel is not much expensive on nevermore because nevermore have farming skill to make 2700 easy..

you said that nevermore have good movespeed but, travel have better movespeed than treads..

nice strategy. lolz 10/10

Good pics and gifs.
Nice tips and everything. XD

Keep up the good work.

My opinion :
I like Skadi way way better than Nevermore rather than Deso, since deso does not give you survivability and that frost attack since he has no sort of slow except for his ulti, which is NOT your source of slow.

Also...

Yukino = male.

MALE I TELL YOU!

omg strategy. seriously. omg

anyway, putting aside that you get a 10/10 from me for obvious reasons... :D just a question...

if you get a desolator and a treads... doesnt that mean... you lack chasing power? if you get deso you might as well get BoT... otherwise i'd get s&y.... just asking tho.

GREAT GUIDE :D

purrrrrfect!!^^ gj! i love da gif..

BEST GUIDE EVER READ! BETTER THAN THE SOUL KEEPER GUIDE THAT WON THAT AWARD. 10/10 THE BESHT GUIDE EVER CREATED!

@Quale yukino isn't a she, his gender is discovered in "Make yourself know thread".
The guide is great, altough I never really liked nevermore.Nice images,video etc. Great job!

Nice video........

10/10 WEEEEEEE!!!!!! finally...

mb you should use a replay

http://www.garena.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=217838&extra=page%3D2

this one is pretty good...it's a newer one from the garena professional replays and vod download section.

mb you should use a replay

http://www.garena.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=217838&extra=page%3D2

this one is pretty good...it's a newer one from the garena professional replays and vod download section.

nice strategy especially the videos!!!

i always find him *tricky* to play, but not anymore Mr. Nevermore

by the way, which program did u use for the animated gifs captures ?

thanks, very well done job

insanely made!!!!!!!!!!!!

TOO GOOD!!!!!

DEFINITELY 10/10!!!!!

finally a good nevermore guide
10/10

Magnifico! ASTIIIIIIG!!!! You should join the next DS guide making contest, heaven and hell will vow to your masterpiece. You are now the master of guides!

Of course 10/10.

"(5.) yukino_silvermaine for HER "Orb Effects"

HAHAHAHAHA!! (yuki is a HE)

A great Nevermore guide!

God... Great guide indeed...
Fun to read, it explains EVERYTHING you need in order to play this guy right, and the animated gifs are just LOL
Great job, not much to say, it's an excellent guide ;)
10/10

Very impressive well done and detailed!

treads
desolator
lothar
butterfly
EoS-mkb-buriza
HoT-assult

nice guide very detailed and specific 10/10

best guide! very impressive! so detailed! nuff said

Most detailed guide on DS holy shiot!
U deserve 11/10, i just learned like 20 things bout nevermore, l iove this guide and there isnt too much text!!!

Better than steve-os witch doctore and PenguPenguins pudge guide.

Congrats man.

great guide 10/10
both Ghost and I were making guides but I'm glad that you made yours first, definitely better than mine

another synergy you might want to add is Rooftrellen's overgrowth holding people in place so you can position yourself

another synergy: if you are laning with Sladar, you might consider putting some points into Presence so you can harass the enemy like crazy and with a stun, 3 nukes, sprint and -9 armor the enemy will surely die

comment continued, not double post

You unconciously acknowledged it, but you should emphasize that denying creeps will count for Necromastery, this is sooooo important early game because you are denying your opponents gold and experience and making yourself more powerful, win win

under lane scenarios I would add something about melee vs ranged and the different ways to harass each type

also, you should link to katzkie’s guide on juking because up until you get lothar you have no way to escape

the link is http://www.gg-game.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=19085&extra=&page=1

if you want to link to some replays, neph66 had one that I was going to use
available here http://www.dotastrategy.com/forum/ftopic12964.html

there are other replays but I haven't watched them. I have some of my own if you are interested. Also, I would talk to Ghost

just some recommendations that I had in my guide

Superb guide, I'm glad that yours was published.
10/10

This site really needed a good Nevermore guide so I'm glad that we finally had one. (under my thanks to I had nightfogs for making a crappy guide :) )

Also, I hope you get VIP status for this guide cause it is awesome.

Yay for intentional quad posts!!!

you shouldve entered dotactics with this before showing it in public! now they will be able to imitate your way of making strats esp the pics that move!

i gotta say this guide raises the bar for strat guides on this site. i wouldnt even care if the guide was not great(which it is). the presentation alone is marvelous. thumbs up man.

@ rambol & mirana0406

ok, nice point about BoT. i'll add that on my next update. midas? i dunno, coz nevermore is already a good farmer. the IAS will help his DPS though.

@ DrifterZ

i include dagger and bottle on other good items for nevermore. eventually, if you buy bottle, you'll need a crow. and most beginners is not yet good at micro-ing. thanks!

@ `UnholY`

yup, i agree about skadi. but farming for the expensive components of skadi will take long. i just didn't suggest this for beginners. about yukino's, i'm really sorry about that and i'll change that on my next update.

@ ic4three778

yup, it's difficult to chase with treads only. you really need help from a teammate to stun/slow/disable the enemy. but with nevermore's high attack damage and nukes, sometimes the enemy loses HP so fast they didn't manage to escape.

@ argggh101

i'll watch that

@ fama

i used Easy GIF Animator, it's free unlimited trial version (i think). but you need to be good on photoshop first.

@ Moon_Raven

i'll correct that on next update

@ KAKEE

thanks! *with tears of joy*
i'll change that "her" part on my next update, i promise!

@ folechno

those are nice points. i'll definitely add those info, maybe so soon. thanks really. thanks to the links about katzie's juking guide and replays. i'll check that now.
"Yay for intentional quad posts!!!"


@ fritzjeromemenorca

i started studying nevermore march and creating this guide april (when dotactics has just started). it's too late for me to join the contest coz preparations will take a lot of time. i finished this guide last month.

VERY NICE GUIDE! Very similar to how i build my nevermore I just get loth first so i dont lose souls and i can gank easy with lothars ult pewpew.

I wish I had this guide when I was learning Nevermore!

This is one of the most complete guide i've ever read. The skill build is just perfect and the item build is easy yet destructive.

Very perfect. I'll give it 10/10. You deserve it for your hard work, quale.

btw one of the picture is wrong there.
this one:
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/395/7zxczg6.jpg

@ Pinky Ishkafel

thanks!
also thanks to the suggestions you gave me last week, i followed them and i think that helped my guide from getting approved.
btw, what's wrong with the picture?

you misplaced the hotkey z, x, c

@ Pinky Ishkafel

the hotkeys are fine. the idea of this picture is for nevermore to fire 3 shadowraze while charging the target. thats why it's called CXZ combo, far to near.

you wrote it yourself:
The effective way to kill a hero is by ZXC combo. If he has 1/2 HP remaining, use Shadowraze(Z) if he is close to you then/or Shadowraze(X) if he is in your attack range. If he start to escape, use Shadowraze(C) for the kill.

but in the picture it is placed wrongly, see the picture carefully :)

Nice guide, detailed and tips and tricks, picutres and also the vid! 10/10

a nice guide seems u'd played nevermore alot
nevermore is a easy hero to play lot of people says shadowraze and reqium were hard to use- -*
shadowraze u can just guess from ur base range(500), if he's nearly or infront of u pree Z, if he's in ur attack range(try to attack vreep near him first to make sure) js press X, if he's further away guessing from ur attacrange and kind of two trees in between pess C

His ultimate, yea for newbies are hard but if u play and practice alot u'll know the casting time doesnt mean anythin much, for me just go infront(like 300 range infront) of his route or guess wear he gonna go by blink or lothar's then cast it.

item build for me:
Power thread < more atk speed
Lothar's edge < surviving, avoid gang, go into gang
MKB < minor stun
Butterfly < for sure, evasion. agi,damage
buy other orb(stygian/EoS)

the reason i dont buy stygian is the 4420 gold for only -6 armor and +60.. better for MKB +75, +atk, minor stun tht may change hthe different between LIFE and DEATH.....

@ Pinky Ishkafel

ah ok. actually, you can cast the 3 shadowraze in any order you like.

in this guide, i highlight 2 combo. CXZ combo (shown by that picture and the next animated GIF where i just killed 2 creeps) and ZXC combo (shown by the animated GIF where i killed Na'ix). the difference: CXZ is charging (far to near), while ZXC is fighting up close first (near to far).

CXZ is difficult while ZXC is the effective. the picture you're talking about is for CXZ. confused?

@ lvluffin

hey thanks more adding more tips on using shadowraze and requiem of souls. if it's ok, i'll add some of those info to my next update. your item build is nice. recently, i'm liking satanic for nevermore.

OMG OMG OMG never seen a guild any better than this. WAY better than most of the guilds i think i need to try him now u showed me the way of the furture. PLS stay active and go to the forums i cant wait to talk more with u ur so good. maybe a little more detail in ur diagrams but love the movies and the diagrams just a bit more detail then perfect all the way for me and remember STAY ACTIVE. XD.

ermmmmmm,very nice guide for him,really better than that "soul eater's guild"

First of all ur first item on 5v5 is a bottle then u get boots 2 bracers and a chicken...NEVER TREADS!!U go for lothars and then either for skardi or s&y or even satanic...depends...desolator is a long forgotten strategy that is rarely used in tours...u can get deso aftr lothars BoT and skardi/s&y/satanic...however it is a really nice strat i like it...

The think u missed is that nevermore is not that fragile and not ultimately powerful...u must balance these 2 for ultimate owning:)

Oh and u should correct in "other items" U write power treads instead of BoT

Brilliant guide.

Needed Guide.
Great Presentation.
Working Strategy.

but some people might need a reminder that early game if your against an int hero, your probably stuffed.

@ nwa4life

to be honest, i'm not a pro. i'm just an average Nevermore-user that knows a lot of things about him. :P
thanks!

@ XHellspawNX

thanks for mentioning your strategy for nevermore. i know that desolator is old school, but hey it is still effective. also, i'm trying to show how to use him in an easy but effective way in this guide.

Cant disagree on anything. Thats more or less how I play sf. Except I dont usually get bracers due to the fact that I only solo the middle lane since it ensures maximum safety

@ XHellspawNX again


i did notice. i'll correct that "treads" to "BoT" on next update.

@ War_Wrecker

thanks. what do you mean by stuffed?

nevermore, one of my fave heroes
good guide...

the lothar's + ulti tech. is usually effective on heroes with long range since they just stay in one place and hit creeps.. which gives you enough time to windwalk to their very character.....

@ulti range.... i have read a guide which says that Requiem of souls has different slows depending on the range of the target... if the target is very close to you he will receive a full effects of the slow.... hope this helps...

ok my bad

Great, i suggest Bottle as one of the core, and lothars rushed

the player on YouTube with nevermore was a nub and was playing vs PUBS?

This is a really good guide, although I must agree with most of the people here, desolater only makes you more fragile but it's not bad and it still works. Your explanations were great and could immensely help new players in shadow raze aiming.

Wow thx the 1st time i played with nevermore i was reading your guide and i owned the game thx

@quale ok i know but since noobs are rushers u should provide as a basic strat containing ways to increase suvivability and not damage since they will just kill and die using this until they learn...

I remember when i was playing never full DPS(when i was noob)...treads deso assault!!!

@War_Wrecker...eeemm...usually int heroes are my forst blood early game unless they get fast regen or are both nukers...:(

Thats when ur "stuffed" if translate it correctly...XD

very very good nicely analyzed but i would like it if u gave some more specific items..............u have listed too many

wow, the first comment section where the guide maker is actively talking with people a lot, good job

something I forgot to say earlier
you have swapped the ms/aspd effects of requiem

it should have a larger effect when closer, you have the numbers switched

still a great guide


@lvluffin
MKB does give good stats but I don't see how a 0.1 sec stun means the difference between life and death, unless you mean the enemy's life and death (thinking of tp)

10/10 speaks for itself

Vey nice guide indeed. We have ourselves a new good guide writer here Should i be worried

Really nice 10/10

Excellent guide, keep up the good work

very good guide, 10/10 i have the same item build & skill build as you do and it works really well

@ gonz22

yup, i did mention that there's a debuff in requiem of souls. but the effect is opposite, the enemy far from nevermore receive more debuff than those who are near to him.

@ sfsy1

having a bottle means having more responsibility to the user. like refilling it by runes or on fountain, then using crow. it's an advance strategy and advised for good players already.

@ c1w4w4

i'll look for a better video. i can't create videos like KAKEE. sigh.

@ fwii~

thanks. when i started nevermore, i used SnY in my very first build. in this guide i used desolator as the core item coz it emphasize his potential in a way easy to explain. but there are lots of effective items for him, and some are better than desolator. readers are encourage to experiment these themselves.

@ XHellspawNX

"noobs are rusher...they will just kill and die using this until they learn."

aye! i guess, in my guide, i just advise everyone to be a team player. don't attack without a partner if possible.

@ uncle F

there are lots of good items, and combinations of items, for nevermore (see "other items"). too many to mention. but at least, i tried to warn you that some items will not work in combination of others.

@ folechno

no, really. the closer the enemy on your ultimate, the less effect of debuff. it's logical coz they'll receive bigger damage anyway. i'm not busy today so i'm a little active. ;)

@ Blackhawkdown

man, you just ruined the web page. if only i have the power to delete your comment. sigh.

@ Greater Bash


don't worry. i'm stuck to nevermore, and my work. i can't create guides for now, or for a long time.

oi... the refresher orb wil it refresh ure souls too?

oh... updated already.... though you forgot to fix the typo in early game killing heroes..... you misplaced the hotkey's Z, X, C.......

z(near) x(mid) c(far)....


in your guide..
c(near) x(mid) z(far)....

awesome guide!!!!
i myself find it enjoyable to play nevermore

10/10 nice work

@ Varisc

souls of necromastery? no! but it would be great if it can.

seriously, refresher orb will only refresh your ultimate, shadowrazes and items in cooldown.

@ gonz22

no, the hotkeys are correct. i've explained this already to pinky. check my previous comments.

This guide is more focused on beefing up the hp of nevermore. In reality with nevermore wouldn't it would be more effective to farm up a lothars as early as you can so you can escape? I've found that most of the time people who try to gank you end up dying anyway from nevermore's insane damage. 8/10, an intesting way to play nevermore.

ah,,, ok that clears it up.... other than that i have nothing more to say...... Great Job....

@ fragmonkey

actually, when i was still creating this guide i'm indecisive whether i'll put desolator as first item or lothar's edge. i chose desolator coz once you have this item it is so easy to farm and kill.

ok. since many commented that i should get lothar's first, i'll change the item order. expect a major update soon.

oh... i totally forgot.... may i suggest to opt bottle for the people who wants to spam shadowraze and helps you control your lane much better.....

[s]oooo[/s]

@quale: Helpful comment:

To stop Requiem of Souls, simply press S while channeling and it will simply stop channeling without wasting mana OR using the skill at all.(Cooldown circle wont move.)

Great strat,everything is explained.But you should add Butterfly and MKB,believe me never is great farmer and he can buy them easily.

9/10

gg but u said that players can evade shadowraze and its 0.5 dely let me just tell you that a persons response is about 1 second so if anyone evades shadowraze based on seeing your animation that your playing vs an alien :)

gg but u said that players can evade shadowraze if they see your animation and its 0.5 delay let me just tell you that a persons response is about 1 second (to anything) so if anyone evades shadowraze based on seeing your animation than your playing vs an alien :)

@quale
Might want to edit that CXZ combo pic. Instead of simply "(C)Shadowraze", say "Use (C)Shadowraze here"

whoa nice guide...hope u will use orb abuse next time

I dont recommend using bottle against observant players since it opens you to an attack. There are no creeps to support you. And as you well know, sf is pretty shitty without any items

I dont recommend using bottle against observant players since it opens you to an attack. There are no creeps to support you. And as you well know, sf is pretty shitty without any items

@ gonz22

ok, i'll add that info about bottle

@ DrifterZ

thanks! i already include that technique on my previous update.

@ polo123

my friend is a good player. really. he's so good he can see the animation and able to evade it. usually, distracted players can't evade shadowraze.

@ rambol

thats a good suggestion, but it's a lot of work to edit that picture. sigh.
anyway, there's already an explanation after the picture that's hopefully enough for readers to understand it.

updated. big modification on "Item Build". whew.

i just hope this revision lasts until icefrog made a huge change on his next DotA map.

cookie cutter skill build, item build...
cookie cutter build.

what can i say, it works.

the shots with the white backgrounds are somewhat useless.
but then the main problem is that it is to hard to get the shots otherwise without picking nevermore 20 times a day for a month.

explanations are good.

i will have to give it a 9/10
because you know, i plan on making mine better than yours.
*votes 10 anyway*
wouldn't want to taint your guides 5 start rating.

@ Ghost

those pics with white background are really tough to get on actual game.

"cookie cutter skill build, item build...
cookie cutter build."


everyone knows your on a nevermore guide. makes me worried actually coz i'm on the finishing touches of this guide when i heard it (or rather read).

i'm also wanting to see it published. coz i know that nevermore has a lot of effective item builds, some are deadlier than my build here.

thanks. :)

Random Thing:
When doing seriously badly and facing nukers and BKB doesn't even help/doesn't help that much. Get a Vanguard or 2.

To destroy a few people like Viper, look for them 1v1 and get BKB. Activate BKB.(As long as you have EoS.) Hit Two-Three Times = Requiem of Souls = Whack rape = Shadowraze IF escaping. If allies come to help, use Lothar's Edge to run. If your allies come to help , finish it before a KS. Harhar

I had a sudden urge to really help this guide. xD. Maybe its cool.

DAMN THIS IS A GOOD GUIDE 11/10

nice one

Nice guide. I agree with the skill and item builds, but I have one comment about Necromastery - to track the number of souls stored, just look at the description over the icon.

Sorry for the double post. I don't think you explicitly stated it, but you get bonus damage from denies as well for Necromastery.

well dude, very nice and detailed guide i still don't know how to give 20 points so you'll have to do with a 10/10 xD i liked that you made movies, your item build sounds fine and your writing makes the guide seem more personal. very good job, keep up the good work.

@ DrifterZ

"I had a sudden urge to really help this guide. xD. Maybe its cool."

thanks for sharing that stratgey.

@ Hybridski

now that i didn't know! that'll help a lot. i'll include that info on my next update. thanks so much!


the necromastery icon on the skill table will state how many bonus damage you've received. eventually, just divide it into two to know how many souls is stored.

The descriptions are really good, and the pictures describing the shadowrage are very infornative. You get my Seal Of Quality approval. 10/10

as i said, pick nevermore 20 times a day for a month...
not happening.

i play nevermore when i random him, or when i want to repick something because i cbf with some micro or something..

problem is incorporating 3 different skill builds

as for item builds its pick your own adventure really.

And Ghost doesn't have a 20% chance of randoming Nevermore... unlike myself.

3 different skill builds.
pick your own adventure item build.

that's huge.

one skill build is negligable, its the "i'm a complete nub who doesn't want to learn to use shadowraze" build.

and yeah, damn shims 20% nevermore random.
along with his -random imba command

and after -random imba command, shim can also use -repick imba command if he failed.

HOLY SHIT!

amazing guide, i always wanted to know how to make fraps(will help in brad and tiny guide)

i only has 3 probs with this guide, 2 has been mentioned by random members

the skill build

i highly believe PoTDL is unnecessary

it has an amazingly large AOE, and makes people realise of your presence, as the skill name is

stats aare better for me, you need all it gives . but by removing that skill, you also need to change the orb of choice

9/10 by rating but i'll put 10

@ cf(x)

it's nice to hear from you!


about PoftDL, i did tried to warn the readers that enemies can use the aura of this skill to know sf's location. i'll leave that idea to them and it's up to them if they want to use it or not. still, this skill is just good along with desolator. and i'm trying to emphasize nevermore's dps from mid game.

thanks!

maybe i need to elaborate that idea, about neglecting PotDL. if the player don't want desolator, they must use a different orb item.

i'll add that on my next update. but that's until 6.53 is released. i've been updating this guide for 4 straight days already. drew's fingers must be tired of approving this guide everyday.

lol haha

i seem to see that manta vorks well

and i still get dagger
my build is SnY+PT+Butter+HoT, though most of the time i only reached eagle due to excessive ganking

the most succesful guide in educating people, ever

one gazzillion/10 this is one of da best guides with links screenies, vid's and stuff man this guide ROCKZ and PWNZ

†w0w†

wow, you've been busy making the guide so much better. if I was drew, i wouldn't mind reapproving the guide, so awesome

it's counter intuitive for the requiem effects to be reversed but whatever, if that's how it works

woohoo my name is first for the ds members

The very well-known Lothar build, hehe!

Nice job here,

._. nevermore...great basic explanation. not a guide i'd read about sf... since i've seen far better sf's. but it'll help people learn something bout this hero =)

@ folechno

you're first coz you gave a lot of useful info.


@ [a.i]-NoobClan

the reason i created this guide is coz... well, first i want at least one guide here in DS. two, the sf guide here is poor (deleted by orochi). three, lots of players says sf is hard to play.

"but it'll help people learn something bout this hero =)"

yes, and don't worry, ghost is creating another nevermore guide for DS that'll show flexible builds and with greater potential than mine here.

damn straight.
love the massed updates.

also for the early nuke combo i would suggest suggesting that you click just behind or just in front of the hero as after each raze he will continue to walk along the designated path, this makes the z/x/c combo easier to pull.

Random Idea:

Cast Requiem of Souls and count 1.5seconds,forcing enemy to run. As long as ally techies has planted , its kaboom! xD. Run or Not Run!

1.5Seconds And Quickly press S to stop RoS and boom to teh enemy. If alive, blink then RoS

they'll be liek: WTF HAX00rz YOU CASTED RoS

Very nice guide bro, keep up the good work. 10/10

@ Ghost

hmm, maybe i'll need to add that as characteristic of shadowraze. thanks!

man, more updates? zzz...

@ DrifterZ

faking RoS. lol
but that works.

faking shadowraze is also cool.

This is like the BEST GUIDE ON DOTA STRATEGY!!!!!!!!!!!!

10/10 dude !!!

wait... so its impossible that requiment of souls reaches maximum damage to a single hero ?

@ Open[godlike]

not impossible, but almost possible.
really, there are two things needed for "all 15 lines" (maximum damage) to hit a target:

1) you must be inside the target's body. wind walk will solve that.

2) the target must have a huge collision size, heroes like bradwarden and pit lord. but heroes like kardel and rylai are small.

the hardest part: the target must not move.

magnificent! this site has this kinds of premium guides???

woohoo nice guide! i use to not know how to play sf but after reading dis hell yeah!

the one thing i dnt like about him is his low life and complex skills..

for me, nevermore relies on his , enemies' low armor. other than that hes an easy kill. but nyc animations and start! 8/10

the one thing i dnt like about him is his low life and complex skills..

for me, nevermore relies on his , enemies' low armor. other than that hes an easy kill. but nyc animations and start! 8/10

the reason why i say nevermore is an easy kill is bcoz i almost always fight him in our games and he always get killed easily... im i permabasher player, ehehehe ^^ maybe datz the rison.

i would like to stress something in your guide. permastunners. one hit and ur doomed! hahaha, its true. but there's still a chance of an escape. if your still alive after the chrono disappears, use lothars immediately. and..

RUN LIKE HELL!!!

@ bryyxx

your problem about nevermore is actually simple:

"low HP"
nevermore is a good farmer, so get bottle and vanguard/tarrasque or satanic.

"complex skills"
study first (i hope my guide could have helped you), then practice.

"nevermore relies on his , enemies' low armor"
not always, he relies on these: (1) nukes (shadowrazes and ultimate) and (2) his big attack damage (via necromastery). he's a nuker then DPS-er. even if he don't use PotDL and desolator, he can kick ass.

cont. @ bryyxx

"hes an easy kill"
team play! with his teammates the enemies are the one's who are "easy kill". also if 1v1, with "tank build" he's "tough kill".

about the chrono and permastunners...
aye! wind walk can come in handy. thanks for mentioning that tip.

hehehe.. yup, ur guide helped me. but i still cnt get the skills ryt. but i did, once.. balanar was charging at me with breakneck speed. so i activated my shadowgraze. ZXC hahaha. the 3 got him! then i used ulti and hes dead! hahhaha. thanks for the strat.

and the permabashers, but some people, like me, dnt wnt to see our enemies twitch.. so we get PT, MoM and 4 bashers. hhahahah.. but that seldom happens.. st first i considered euls, but lothars was better.

whenever i use nevermore, i always go for more damage..

You should add a COMBO Section in your strategy that adds some combo w/ skills. Such as Faking RoS+Land Mine/Suicide/Remote Mine Techie Combo and Others Such As Frost Bite + RoS On Single Hero For Max pwnz0rnezz.

Btw, If the game is -ap , this would be GG unless Balck King Bar Kills the Joy..(KJ)

Magnus Reverse Polarity->Enigma SF and CM Blink In->Enigma BH->SF+CM->Ulti->RAPE->QoP CHASE/KS with Wave. PWND! LOLOLOLOL.

We tried it and yes it was awesome. And yes QoP Ks'd. xD Good Luck!!

strAtegy beyond words...ty...10/10

n1

OMG Sick.....!!!!!!

This s the greatest strategy that i've ever seen!!!!!!!!! 10.5/10

nice guide! i dont remember if i commented before lol.

the moving images and videos are nice

i grant you the rarely awarded rating of...

10/10

Good guide, but I think you should switch Lothars to alternative items and Dagger on the main build.

Lothars is only an escape mechanism (sure it gives ms) in pubbies, now try to play a competitive game w/o getting countered with wards or gem. You won`t be able to position your ult and sometimes escape

Other than that good job

comment # 201
nice guide

I love the GIF.

This guide is beyond godlike.Anyways i also make same type of items and after getting desolator, i go for assault cuirass for lowering their armor more. With assault cuirass they will receive about 50% more damage according to my calculation. Anyways nice guide (10/10)

Best Guide ever seen

@ DrifterZ

a combo section? that'll be nice i think. i'll try to add that. your magnus + enigma + cm + qop combo is overkill. noone can survive that.


@ dohyun99


yes, your first comment.
thanks!

@ Sh4d0wd3m0n

i just can't replace that item on my main build. lothar's is like "beginner friendly". but i'll add that about dagger as: for "competitive games".

haha thanks, sometimes i'm used to get lothars in pubs too

Awesome strat

that was a nice strategy indeed. btw loving your gifs :D

now i rape as nevermore...

wow , u seem to reply to every single constructive comments here haha.

btw, i will rate it 10/10 now

I just really really love this strategy.

By far the best guide on DS ! Can you make a guide for Invoker ?

xmmm...invoker is a complicated hero he doesnt need just skill...

he needs brains...

however i would like to see a guide published in order to compare my strategy...

2 good kael guides is already at pending, well, according to orochi. and i know amplirage has created a mega huge kael guide. let's wait for it.

@ XHellspawNX

hey, if you can - why not create a kael guide? that'll be cool.

lol with every suggestion and update your guide is beginning to look more and more like mine.

spoiler to make it more like my guide. look at the cost effectiveness of desolator in regards to armor (misc hint to make it easier "13, unlucky, for some" yays managed a CSI PIEAMI quote)

loving the bracer in every build. says "you aren't going to get much more, look at the cost"

and yes 2 pending kael guides.

w0w! an inspiration! . .

makes me what to make a guide. .

ehehe! . .

very nice job man!

"bastante bien!"

galing!!1

damn this guide!!
why is it that theres always a bracer in ur final build?!! yuck!!! u just wasted a slot u bullsh*t!! why not include another butterfly or mkb for a greater amount of damage!! dont make a guide anymore you moron!! shame on you!!

@ firstbloodbaby

the idea is to show what are the "possible" items you can get to make these builds. i said "possible". in real games, you won't be able to fill your inventory with 6 high-tier items. unless your game took 90 minutes (or the enemy let themselves be killed over and over again). which is unlikely to happen if you're using nevermore... if you're a good-nevermore user, you'll finish the game fast. anyway, if you don't like the bracer, simply replace it. end of story. sheesh!

I've been itching to ban someone today. Thanks for making my day.

i just hope i'm not the one you're itching to ban.
:confused:

updates done! i included mini-stunners on other heroes. i mean, with rattletrap and his 15 seconds of mini-stunning...he's a threat for those who have channeling spells.

He meant firstbloodbaby lol.

hes comment is bullshit

tisk tisk.

anyway yes, i do believe firstbloodbaby has being more annihilated then 999% Jigglypuff to a fully charged side smash from Dedede, for those who don't know, thats pretty damn annihilated.

anyway yes i am still turing your guide into my guide by telling you to add things.
get the memo about subliminal messaging?
well there wasn't one, so probably not.
perhaps, after looking at cost effectiveness of items, consider suggesting an order for the buying of items in other builds.

because i don't see getting boots as item 5 working..
^_^
but then it does largely come down to need, i spose this is what makes manta a situational item in my build.

and DPS build would take treads (agi) over travels.
and probably lothars over dagger.

meanwhile carry build probably doesn't put out enough dps to take the bruiza, probably worth considering mjolliner there.

tank build is bordering on perfect, naturally bkb is situational but if you need to tank you are probably against stuns.

and the cookie cutter cut cookies like no tomorrow.

another random useless tidbit of info to add would be that the aoe of each shadowraze slightly overlaps the next.

lets see i could keep writing to fill a third full 500 character post but really i don't have a need, i will come back again when i
a) complete my guide
b) think of something else you could add, making it more like my guide, decreasing the chance mine gets published
c) get bored and want to talk.

damn thats another full post.

nice strategy and screen shots and also the guide for shadowraze is awesome.i hope you make strategies for other heroes too.

@quale orochi is talking about firstbloodbaby I think

great updates, lots of things being added, sorry I can't rerate it any higher

battery assualt will just pwn nevermore if he tries to use his ulti because it will keep interrupting you and since your ulti can't be stopped (barring you hitting stopping it) you will keep continueing to cast it, making the cast time more like 5 seconds

if you want a replay with a carry nevermore, I can send you a link (would have to find it first)

it's in the pro replay section here if you want to go look

also, your other items section is so long, it would be easier just to group them by effect and reduce all that space, like these items all give health/armor and help survivability and then highlight very important items that stand out from the rest

Gondar only has 1 ministun while clockwerk and kardel have lots, doesn't really fit, suggest moving him to the missile stun group

your other heroes section is kinda long and not really ordered, would suggest making general categories, especially one with worst enemies where repeated stunners and long stunners and powerful nukers would go

your guide is awesome, just really long (I can't wait for amp's kael guide ), if you could shorten it and make it easier to read/flow better it would be much more enjoyable

also continue to unintentionally turn your guide into Ghost's, means your guide is that much more awesome

@Ghost I think you mean Ike, he's got a little more power imo than King Dedede

another quick suggestion, add the aoe circle to the moving image where you show the distances of each shadowraze (the first non-white background one)

also, you need to stop making so many changes that this guide can be on the front page for more than a day or two so people can read it

Hehe... I got a Quintuplekill with Requiem and two Razes.

Hmm.

Nice guide. I like that you're updating it.

The skill build is nice, and so are the strategies. I kind of disagree with the item build. I have never once used Lothar's Edge on Nevermore and I've done just fine. Desolator is okay but it ruins the original attack animation. What I get is Butterfly after Treads on Nevermore just for the raw power and survivability.

this guide is even better than just PERFECT!!

i like that u update it, great guide

@ ghost

those items on my sample builds are in random order. ok, i'll arrange the items.

DPS: i chose BoT over PT coz i like radiance-BoT combo, make him an insane pusher. meanwhile, radiance doesn't work well with lothar's so i chose dagger.

CARRY: buriza is good especially at late game and when the enemy is getting stronger. butterfly, linken and skadi will boost his damage and attack speed making his criticals scary.

but yeah, i'll try to fix those builds.

@ folechno


you should have typed the link of the replay...but ok, i'll try to look for it. is it 1.22?

sorry about the item section, it is long coz all those items are good for nevermore ...but situational. so i need to explain why and when they'll need to get each.

yes, i'm planning to arrange that heroes section, add pictures about the AoE of shadowraze too.

you guys should have said those suggestions before 6.53 is released!!!

i have this fear of updating this guide again, coz drew has lots of things to do and he can't always re-approve this. but i'll dare to make some changes probably when things cool down after the arrival of 6.53. sigh

@ shim

grats with your quintuplekill. can't wait for your leoric guide... and amp's kael.


@ AsianSensation

thanks for sharing your strategy.

You are now in need of Lycan in your: Best allies section which you should put.

So I had a specific replay in mind but after looking through some other replays, it seems that CORPO usually uses Nevermore as their carry hero so just about any CORPO replay will work.

that being said, here is the link to the replay which I was thinking about
http://www.dotastrategy.com/forum/ftopic7665.html

the title of the replay is bt_chill_vs_corpo_153

stumbled upon it while looking for replays for my Lina guide

great strat...
u have really put work in2 this
tnx man!

curse you continuous updating at this rate your guide will become my guide before i finish it 100%
i am (almost) prepared to give up nearly and focus on clockwerk instead.
if i do i will be sure to send you some important pictures.

I WOULD suggest adding AoM on the other items. It works awesomely on Nevermore with the dps+str,its awesome. It should be paired with a form of Lifesteal.(Satanic) So You wont be worrying about the 30HP/Sec Loss. Its a great item.
A Build with AoM would probably be this:

PT Agi/BoT
AoM
Lothar's Edge/Blink Dagger
Satanic
Eye of Skadi
The Butterfly

It owns

It is sooo awesome!
Like your guide!

@ DrifterZ

i wonder what category would lycan belong?

AoM? ok, i'll make a research for that. thanks for suggesting the item build too. if it works, i'll add that on my next update.

@ folechno

yoooosh!!!
i'll check that replay. what patch does it support? hmm...

@ Ghost

clockwerk? that'll be awesome!!! usually Greater Bash would say that strategy for this hero is unnecessary coz 6.53 isn't a stable map yet. but it doesn't matter, DS allows us to update our guides. in case Icefrog made some changes to rattletrap, update.

it's interesting and actually exciting to see a rattletrap guide, especially from you. everyone would be. but i'm not discouraging you on finishing your nevermore guide.

Nice Strat. I love Lothars with Nevermore. U can windwalk and cast ur ulti without breaking invisibility awsome.

lol i can make you finish my nevermore guide by hinting/providing infomation and stuff i have that you don't chances are after your fantastic guide they won't publish another nevermore.

on the other hand, yes i am refraining from making a clockwerk because i am predicting a str nerf (agi/int buff) and a slight damage and cooldown nerf to battery assault.

but yeah when i finish my item build picture because i am bored i could send it to you, it basically makes your entire item build section....

redundant.
by compacting it into one 15x15 picture designed to provide items for 6 slots based on when to get them.

^_^
had to add the explanation to cover for the otherwise 1 word post.

@ Ghost

well, integrating my guide with your guide sounds good.

i'm curious about that item build picture. "compacting it into one 15x15 picture"? what the--!!! that could be huge and i assume that's so essential. i hope you can finish it soon...and of course allow us to have a peek on it.

will do, i will also send you few other pictures that i have either found or made.
^_^

ok, just inform me if it's done.

i'm looking for replays now, i'll check the one folechno mentioned and your game with coco (razor in-house).

Wow extremely effective 10/10 vids .jif images normals this if a great guide clear well written and you at least recommend the treads +10 bonus.
I randomned nevermore like 6 days after reading your guide...and i very easily had a 8/0

i played badly, but it does show the ineffectiveness of desolator against high armor heroes.

very nice strat for SF,, i luv shadow razing its sooo fun and increases ur estimation

i reduced the size of the picture significantly.
down to about 8cm2 but then this might be 2 small, hard to tell, i had it blown up in photoshop.

anyway, pming you a couple of pictures.

8x8 its still huge (i mean it got shrunk in the pm preview) anyway pmed you the things with the stuff.
3 pictures, 1 regarding ultimate, 1 item builds and 1 cost effectiveness of items.

got it ...and saw it.
:nose bleeds:

ok, updates coming soon!

lol there are probably more to come but i will need to overlay some screens from replays.
thats 1 or 2 so yeah not much ^_^

anther random fact, i did not follow my item build in the match against coco.
razors armor > deso+potdl
i really should have thought that through.

Very nice guide good work !!

HOLY CRAP THIS IS THE MOST ORGANIZED GUIDE IVE SEEN YET good job keep it up, i like ur builds but i disagree with ur priorities for certain skills

TWO THUMBS UP!